Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/20/1997 03:45 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 146 - PUPIL COMPETENCY TESTING Number 0034 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first item on the agenda as HB 146, "An Act relating to competency testing requirements for secondary students; and providing for an effective date." He referred to a proposed committee substitute reflecting testimony given last week by Dr. Nancy Buell. The committee substitute changes some effective date standards. The competency test would first be given in the ninth grade and until the student passed the test, it would be given in the tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades. This would allow time for remediation and a different exposure to the material. These changes were suggested by the Department of Education (DOE) because of possible legal challenges to the legislation. Number 0093 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to adopt CSHB 146(HES), version O-LSO515\E. There being no objections, CSHB 146(HES) was before the committee. Number 0160 REPRESENTATIVE J. ALLEN KEMPLEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 1 to HB 146(HES). Number 0165 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for purposes of discussion. Number 0170 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said Amendment 1 would begin competency testing at an earlier time in the educational process. Competency testing would apply to secondary students as well as elementary students. Children would be tested in the fourth, eighth and eleventh grades. The examination used for the eleventh grade could be considered the final competency exam. The DOE would determine the form and content of the examinations and scores. A pupil who fails to pass one of these examinations would receive remedial instruction in the areas tested. This amendment would give additional opportunity for the educational system to identify weaknesses in the students at an earlier age and to address those weaknesses with remedial education to affect a positive change. Number 0330 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that there had been discussions on this idea and there was currently nothing preventing the school district from doing this testing. He referred to the California Achievement Test (CAT) as an example where students are being measured at an early age. He expressed concern about the size of the fiscal note if we included this language in the bill. He stated that we would basically pay schools twice to do what they should be doing now. He continued his opposition to Amendment 1. Number 0357 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN agreed with the chair, even though there were discussions that the younger students are tested the better. Number 0386 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE referred to testimony presented by administrators, teachers, school board associations on this subject. He thought Amendment 1 went a long way in addressing the questions raised about the finality of a single exam. The amendment recognized the need for remediation in the statute and tracking students throughout the system, to avoid having them slipping through the system. He felt the argument that districts could already do this went against the concept of the legislation. If districts could test, then why did the state have to mandate an exit exam. He concluded that when it comes down to the last semester of high school, the student should not be put into a situation of having to pass a single test in order to receive a diploma. Number 0520 CHAIRMAN BUNDE clarified that the DOE's concept of this exam would begin testing in the ninth grade. Students would be tested in the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades. Number 0540 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if the chair would accept Amendment 1 as a friendly amendment if language was added specifying ninth, tenth and twelfth grades. Number 0563 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said the elementary school component would have to be deleted from Amendment 1. It was his intention to allow the DOE to develop the test which would be taken, the first time, in the ninth grade. Students who tested out in one of the areas wouldn't take another test, those that didn't test out would then receive some remediation and take the exam again in the tenth, the eleventh and twelfth grades. The students have four attempts to pass the test, it is not a one time only test. Number 0603 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that unfortunately, the way the bill is written, it is a one time only exam. Number 0616 CHAIRMAN BUNDE disagreed because the competency exam, as he viewed it, was this series of four tests. Number 0630 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE felt this should be clarified within HB 146(HES). He suggested that Amendment 1 might not be the answer, but that the intent should be clarified that it is a series of tests given over the high school academic career of the student. The legislature can have a certain level of expectation for the DOE that they will introduce some type of program, but there is nothing that says they need to do so in HB 146(HES). He felt that if the bill was supposed to address the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades, then it should have specific language. Number 0694 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that if the legislature put all of those things into the bill, were they over doctoring something that legislators don't have expertise in doing. This legislation establishes that there will be a competency exam given, the school district will determine how to administer the exam and there is this added suggestion that the exam would be administered starting in the ninth grade. He felt that it was incumbent upon the legislature to see that the DOE would perform these tasks. If they don't, then you could legislate these specific functions. This was better than to insist that the legislature put their own recommendations in statute form. He felt the statutes were out of the legislature's area of expertise. Number 0770 CHAIRMAN BUNDE agreed that he wanted to leave as much flexibility for the DOE as possible. He questioned if HB 146(HES) should include intent language which spoke of a series of tests beginning in the ninth grade. Number 0781 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE suggested that the reasons why a lot of state departments go off "willy nilly" on certain issues such as resource issues, is that the legislature is not very clear. He was not sure that he would want to leave a large degree of leverage for the DOE to go off and start the process all over again. He felt the DOE had good intentions, but he has seen too many times after the legislators are gone where the DOE will go back, regardless of legislative intent, and implement some other type of program. Number 0855 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said that testing might have to change significantly. Number 0870 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained that the content of the test is not at issue. A much broader question is the application of the process by which the test is required. Number 0890 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to line 6 and suggested, "unless the pupil passes a series of competency examinations." REPRESENTATIVE BRICE agreed to that language. Number 0918 REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON agreed with Representative Green that the committee began with good intentions, but is starting to micro- manage this bill. He understood the original goal was to have a way of asserting that Alaska high school graduates meet some standard of excellence and provide, within the legislation, that some flexibility for students from different social, economic, and language barriers be allowed. He would not want the legislature to dictate how each school and school district would do it. He had great confidence in the education profession and it is inevitable, if this legislation passes, that the schools are going to start moving to structure and produce students who can pass the test. The schools will figure out how to do it and figure out that the school and district are going to be rated on the percentage of students who pass. This rating will be looked at when it comes to budgets. So schools will begin coaching their students and giving them trial tests in third grade, ninth or eleventh grade. He did not feel that we had to worry about getting students to pass the test. Number 1012 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to line 7 and suggested, "plural examinations" and asked if this would indicate where the legislature was going. Number 1027 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY agreed with Representatives Green and Dyson. The legislature is setting up a measurement, doing more micro-managing than he would like, but he thought it had been proven that the legislature needs to do some. The legislature is giving the school districts flexibility as to how they get there, there are no restrictions on them and he did not think there should be any more than was absolutely necessary. He felt the legislative mandate should be minimal. Number 1040 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1. Representatives Kemplen and Brice voted yea. Representatives Green, Vezey, Dyson and Bunde voted nay. Representative Porter was absent for the vote. Amendment 1 failed to be adopted. Number 1083 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to page 1, line 8, and made a suggestion for a conceptual amendment, "examination the Department shall determine the form, contents of the examination and the grade levels to be tested". Number 1119 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON felt HB 146(HES) was wonderful and he disagreed with the conceptual amendment. Number 1135 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 2 to HB 146(HES). Number 1140 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for purposes of discussion. Number 1145 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said, during the testimony on this proposed legislation, the issue of standards were repeatedly brought up. It would be difficult to legally support the competency exam unless there was some sort of standardized measures of performance statewide. Otherwise someone moving from one school district to another school district in the state would be at a disadvantage. Amendment 2 seeks to address this concern. The matrix, presented by DOE and titled, "Possible Implementation Table for Exit Examination", contains a mandate to disseminate performance standards in reading, writing and mathematics related to the exit test in 1997 and 1998. Amendment 2 would put this language into the HB 146(HES). Number 1245 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if this language was needed in addition to page 2, beginning at line 4, "the Department of Education shall report to the legislature containing the standards used to prepare the competency examination". REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN answered that, the way Section 2 is written, it only calls for the production of a report. The proposed amendment moves beyond the report to the actual implementation of standards by the DOE. Number 1284 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the language in Section 2 and questioned how the amendment would improve the language, unless Representative Kemplen felt that DOE would give a report, but not actually do it. Number 1313 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said the wording in Section 2, basically, says that the DOE shall provide a report. It doesn't say that the standards are uniform, it doesn't say that the standards apply statewide, there is ambiguity as it is currently phrased in Section 2. The proposed amendment would clarify and outline what is to be accomplished in a more specific fashion. Number 1361 CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood the wish to put it in more solid language, but he felt that the standards developed for this statewide test would not also be implemented statewide. A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 2. Representatives Kemplen and Brice voted yea. Representatives Vezey, Dyson, Green and Bunde voted nay. Representative Porter was absent for the vote. Amendment 2 failed to be adopted. Number 1401 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN made a motion to move Amendment 3 to HB 146(HES). Number 1408 CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected to the motion for the purposes of discussion. Number 1410 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said Amendment 3 seeks to address a concern about remediation. If an individual fails the examination they would be given an opportunity and assistance to learn in the areas they are deficient in. This amendment directs the institution, providing the competency exam, to provide a method of remediation in case of failure. Number 1464 CHAIRMAN BUNDE felt the districts would work fervently for remediation. As HB 146(HES) allows students to take the test up to three years after high school, he felt the proposed amendment would add significantly to the fiscal note. Number 1486 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said Representative Kemplen was correct, but agreed with the chair. Number 1518 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that he felt the reason behind HB 146(HES) was to provide consistent measures to ensure that students are learning what they are supposed to. He felt Amendment 3 allowed for consistent application. Those students who fail once will get assistance to address their deficiencies. He said we can't predict what all districts will do. He felt Amendment 3 was a logical extension of the bill. Number 1568 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to students with test taking anxiety and said if those students fail this test they might be thrown into a remediation class when it is clear that they know the material. Number 1620 A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 3. Representatives Kemplen and Brice voted yea. Representatives Green, Vezey and Bunde voted nay. Representatives Porter and Dyson were absent for the vote. Amendment 3 failed to be adopted. Number 1651 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 4. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected for purposes of discussion. He stated that social science, in his mind, included civics and asked if civics would be included under this title. CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that, in discussions with DOE, this language addition would be challenging. He believed U.S. history and Alaska history would connotate the civics component. Students would certainly have to understand our democratic process if they were to understand U.S. history. He said the DOE had a hard time finding tests which would accomplish what the legislature wanted to accomplish, this is the reason for excluding social science. Number 1694 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY expressed concern about the need to know Alaska history. He cited the difficulties in students who move from out of state to Alaska. Number 1714 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that it is important for students to know about civics. He asked if it would be cumbersome to leave social sciences in the bill with the additional requirement of U.S. history and Alaska history. Number 1731 CHAIRMAN BUNDE thought civics was covered in history classes. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN felt it was a separate subject. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said civics is a study of governmental processes. Number 1748 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that when he took civics, they had things that were not taught in U.S. or world history. It was vocational, not historical. Number 1781 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that he had a different view. A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 4. Representatives Dyson, Kemplen, Brice, Green and Bunde voted yea. Representatives Vezey voted nay. Representative Porter was absent for the vote. Amendment 4 was adopted. Number 1834 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 146(HES) with individual recommendations. Number 1840 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected in order to make an expectation that the sponsor would look into the civics question at the next committee of referral. Number 1849 CHAIRMAN BUNDE felt this was a reasonable expectation. Number 1852 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated that the DOE did not feel there should be a statewide test on science and social science due to the lack of consensus on standards. He asked if it was the intent of the drafters to address this concern of the DOE. Number 1880 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said it is the intent of the bill sponsor to leave science in there with the expectation that the DOE would find a basic science test with which they will feel comfortable. He added that the DOE would rather get involved in a lab situation which he didn't feel was possible. There should be some basic science information and knowledge in this competency exam. Number 1890 A roll call vote was taken on HB 146(HES). Representatives Green, Vezey, Dyson and Bunde voted yea. Representatives Kemplen and Brice voted nay. Representative Porter was absent for the vote. The committee moved HB 146(HES) from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee with attached fiscal notes and individual recommendations.
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